Kansas City Blog

nice review. the avett bros are cool, but I wish the crossroads venue would get away from their pseudo-jam-band-booking fetish.

whoa! good ass ripping, sam!! i'm pretty much in total agreement with a lot of what you say - except that i love phish - so i guess not on that one.
i dont know what show this dude was at, but rre just totally rocked the whole night. i thought the avetts were pretty cool - but i dont know their songs too well - so i didnt have too much to say about them.
this writer is pretty much a jerk. obviously he just hates jambands and writes this kinda shit about anything like that. and rre isnt even a freakin jamband!! what a tool!

Oh how I wish for the good old days when reviews were on newspaper. That way my puppy can shit on it. However, even dog shit would be too much praise for this hack writer.

Nick, I thought your review was spot on. Also having gone to the show - and I do like umphreys and i love to jam - Railroad Earth was boring. Those guys were talented as shit and you never said otherwise. There really is no reason to hold two saxes at once, surely it's easy to switch off. Come on. The Avett Brothers were amazing, inspirational, and bad ass. Railroad earth, showing, at times, extreme musicianship, were overall, boring. I was timing all of there songs, not one, not ONE was under 10 minutes. Railroad end the song!

What a crappy review of a great show!

"jam band in the surest sense of the word,"-Um, how about more like bluegrass/folk. I had never even listened to RRE before I bought tickets to see the Avett Bros, and I thoroughly enjoyed every second of the show! In fact, I enjoyed RRE a bit more than the Avett's, no offense to the stellar performance they put on. This "reporter" obviously had an extremely biased opinion based on his musical preference and didn't do justice to the title of musical journalist.

Typical response from someone with their agenda, Nick.

And Dylan, not ONE song was under ten mins? Usually they're around this:

Long Way To Go - usually 6-7 minutes long.
Mighty River - usually 9ish minutes
Like a Buddha usually 13ish minutes
Lovin' You - maybe 5 minutes long
Water Fountain Quicksand - 4+ minutes.
The Hunting Song - 10-14 minutes
My Sisters and Brothers - maybe 10.
Bringin' My Baby Back Home - 5-6 minutes.

Sorry, but you're wrong. You didn't time the songs.

I completely agreed with this review. Railroad Earth was OK, but I certainly wasn't blown away by their set, which I also felt was way too long and pretty boring. I met a woman that came just for RRE and had never heard of The Avett Bros which just shocked me, because in my opinion TAB is in a whole other category musicianship and live performance from RRE. Judging from these posts, they obviously have a strong following, but it definitely wasn't even close to the best bluegrass (which I've seen TONS of) or jam band (which THEY refer to themselves as!!!!) that I've seen live.

Dylan Medlock said, "I was timing all of there songs, not one, not ONE was under 10 minutes. Railroad end the song!"

Scott followed with:

"Aha! The show is already up on Archive.org.
Dylan, you absolutely did not time every song.

Long Way to Go: 6+ minutes long.
Mighty River: 7 minutes.
Like a Buddha: almost 14 minutes.
Lovin' You: Not quite 5 minutes.
Waterfountain Quicksand: Not quite five minutes.
The Hunting Song - 11 minutes.
My Sisters and Brothers - 9 minutes.
Bringin' My Baby Back Home: 5.5 minutes"

Dylan, my friend. You have been caught in a flat-out lie...and that is the very definition by example of the kind of bias I was referring to in my first comment. In fact, I think it's safe to assume that Dylan is probably a friend of Nick the journalist.

Your defense of Nick, Dylan, is pathetically transparent and, more importantly, contains a blatant lie. So, you may not care about this, but we all know that Dylan Medlock (assuming that's your real name) is willing to blatantly lie in his egregious attempt to trash a band for no particular reason. If any of you happen to know Dylan, I would suggest using care before trusting him with anything important. Anyone willing to lie that openly would probably do the same again.

Sorry Dylan, but the problem with lying so openly is that you just might get caught!

And Nick, concerning the double saxophone. You may want to consider that Andy does this simply because he can. Part of putting on a show is being able to entertain. Mick Jagger may not NEED to run from stage right to left and dance like a rooster, but he does it to entertain. And, you may want to consider The Avett's show a bit for the places that they do certain things just because it entertains.

I stand by my comment that you do not possess the objectivity to ever be a successful music writer.

Enough with taking this guy to task for bashing Railroad Earth. This was a horrible review without looking at competing musical tastes.

I have never read a concert review professional or otherwise that failed to mention a single song by name. This was the first. How do you review a concert without going back over (that is to say, "without reviewing") what was played? Answer: You can't.

What you did was to compare your feelings about the 2 bands in general to your feelings about some other bands in general. And you mentioned the weather over and over again in self-indulgent puns. That's not a concert review. You might could call it an essay, maybe even an article, but it's no concert review.

You didn't break down the bands by member, didn't mention what cds the bands were touring to promote, didn't give any description of the venue.

Objectivity absolutely does mean to sacrifice your personal opinions. As a reviewer you are entitled to express your opinion - just don't claim objectivity at the same time.

Honestly, the more you write, the more you reveal just how shallow your grasp of music and journalism is.

Hi! I'm the bass player for RRE. I personally think that your review was pretty good. You're evidently more of a punk fan than a Wilco fan, though I'm unfamiliar with any of those bands that you compared the Avetts' to, so of course you're not really gonna be into our whole hippy thing.

It's okay folks... He took the time to explain, at length exceeding that which he gave the Avetts, what he didn't like about us. If I had left the stage feeling that we had just transcended space and time through our music and he had left this review I'd probably still not be upset about it, but at least I would know that there's absolutely no chance we can win this guy over. However, the weather, the sound, and whatever was in our collective heads that evening added up to a performance that was slightly less than the best we can do. I'm not naive enough to think that Nick is definitely gonna give us another chance, but maybe next time he'll get it.

"It's only a song, it can't change the world".

Yes, Kevin, Grubb is Johnny Grubb is definitely a class act. I'm actually pretty amazed that he took the time to comment on this thread. I'm curious as to how he even knew about it???

I think Shawn said it very well above, but I think it's important to point out to Nick that his attempt above to claim some level of objectivity was pretty sad and completely inaccurate. He says, "Objectivity in a music critic means that the reviews written are backed up with well-reasoned arguments regarding the opinions presented. I feel that I did that." Do you really feel you can argue that the statement, "Multi-instrumentalist Andy Goessling's thing with two saxophones was total bullshit" is a well-reasoned argument regarding the opinion presented?? Even your opening statement, Nick, about Railroad Earth just immediately puts them into a pre-conceived category of something you THOUGHT you were about to hear, rather than something you actually heard. And worse, your statement, "John Skehan flubbed about three or four notes on the mandolin, and...let's just be honest here" was not only insanely inaccurate, but obvious in its intent to tear down one of the best mandolins players playing music today. That statement exemplified the absolute fact that you, Nick, weren't even listening to his playing and instead hearing what you were planning to write about him, since he is one of the featured players. All that was missing from your review was a indictment of Tim Carbone's blazing violin playing. Maybe you just ran out of space?

Sorry about the sarcasm, but this review really got to me. Not because it was a negative review of Railroad Earth. I think that's fine. But because it was a review completely without objectivity and meant simply to tear the band down in some bizarre comparison to the Avett Bros.

That statement exemplified the absolute fact that you, Nick, weren't even listening to his playing and instead hearing what you were planning to write about him, since he is one of the featured players.

I'm really not trying to throw gas on a fire here, but what I really think is that most of the people on this thread are right. I can assure you that Skehan flubs a note, usually several, most shows that we play. I think there's a good chance that the writer was actually listening closely enough that he heard it, to which case I give props. By the way, all that means to me is that John is still trying to pull off ideas that he has in his head that his fingers can't keep up with. It's the same reason I flub regularly as well. There are nights when I'm able to pull off anything that floats across my head during a show and never lose the pocket and it's like a hilarious and effortless encounter with God. I think that level is where John Coltrane existed permanently. This particular show was most certainly not like that. I'm not sure what happens when your fingers catch up with your brain all the time. I digress...

It's also possible that he really did just hate us enough from the get go to be thinking very hard during the set how he's gonna slag us rather than actually listening, but at least we hit a nerve somewhere. Look, he didn't say anything about the Avetts instrumentation- he didn't mention that Joe Kwon rocks the cello standing up and that Scott plays the kick drum (but only sometimes) while Seth plays the hi hat because he was too busy writing about how bad we sucked. Honestly, I'll take it. Anybody who does I do for a living would rather be hated on than not given a rip about.

Sadly, the money is where the hippies go.

This is the only part of the whole bit that strikes me as "I'm not sure you really meant to say that like that or you just have no idea what you're talking about". Other than that, a well-written and engaging article. I think you were actually paying attention and for that reason I salute you, sir.

Sorry for double posting earlier.

From what I read, Nick is trying to tell us that he was surprised and upset that so many fans were into Railroad Earth. Nick is mad about that because he is an "elitist" indie/pop kind of guy. Indie/pop guys are not allowed to like Railroad Earth (unless David Dye or Paste magazine begins to like Railroad Earth but few expect that to happen)).

The bottom line is, when you're numero uno, you become an easy target for the wannabes.

Good critics back up their statements with facts. Wannabes just make blanket statements and hope they're so profound, nobody will say, what? Ex: "It's world music in the sense that lots of songs sound like they were lifted off Paul Simon's Graceland album."

Thanks Mr. Grubb for your always insightful insights. Long may you flub.

Hugs & Nugs,
SSB

Sure would be nice if music reviews were restricted to those that had a true understanding and appreciation of music. It's clear that Nick does not, and his review leaves one wondering why he didn't sit home and watch the ballgame and limit his remarks to complaints about pitching, which is certainly more his comfort zone.

Thanks for taking the time to comment, Johnny. It's a rare occasion to get to read a band member's thoughts regarding a review, and you make some very valid points that I'll make sure to consider in future reviews.

Nick sucks, Grubb rules!

Jason,

I appreciate you jumping in here and have enjoyed some of your reviews in the past. I do, however, think you're very wrong about the objective vs. subjective approach to writing about music.

I agree that a critic must do more than simply "report" what happened from moment to moment in a show. A knowledge base of music and an opinion is an imperative. However, the objectivity I refer to is about opening yourself up to the experience, regardless of genre, regardless of instrumentation, and bringing your opinions into the experience based on the type of music you happen to be reviewing.

Here is a more clear example. I may not be a fan of Lady Gaga's music (not at all, in fact). But I was recently put in a situation with friends in which I had to see her perform. While her music was not of the style I personally listen to, I had no choice but to admit that she was a terrific and commanding performer with no shortage of gravitas. Because of my appreciation for talented individuals, I actually found myself enjoying her performance quite a bit, despite the fact that I would probably never put a Lady Gaga CD on when I'm listening to music for pleasure. That's called being objective rather than subjective in critiquing a performance. I didn't shut her down simply because it wasn't the kind of music I listen to and, as a result, I found out that she is far more than I would otherwise have given her credit for.

One other thing, Jason. You are also incorrect about why I attacked Nick's lack of objectivity. It did not come from a subjective place at all. Yes, I love Railroad Earth's music, but I've also read bad reviews about their music before. It would be unusual if some music critic didn't write something negative. However, this is the very first time I've ever written a comment about a negative review. And it was not because I was offended by the fact that Nick didn't appreciate the show. It was because I was offended by the obvious fact that Nick didn't even LISTEN to the show. He knew what he was going to write before they even played their first note. That is completely obvious in his review and, I believe, he began formulating this opinion the moment he saw a so-called "hippy" in the crowd. And that, I find pretty sad.

My band sucks and so does yours, sheesh o cripes people, it's just ONE person's OPINION.

Right or wrong, agree or disagree, poorly written or not, who cares, we all know the band we love, shrug, so what else matters ?

No dobut John misses a few notes on mandolin, but go back listen to entire Miles Davis Plugged Nickel set from 1965. Even Miles missed a note or more, and Herbie clanks at least once. Still makes a great run of shows, and still Miles was a genius. Per the logic in this review Nick would have dished one of the greatest band in the history of music because of few bad notes and the hipsters in the back.

I really like The Avett Brothers, from the show I saw at Mullberry Mountain (RRE was there, as well), but if their audience is filled with indie douchebags like this reviewer, I may never see them again.

Nick, still waiting for your "facts" to back up Andy's double sax playing as "bullshit." Why is it so "sad" that hippies spend their money supporting musicians?

Railroad Earth is KILLS IT!!!

Never even heard of The Avett Brothers before catching their set at Mulberry Mountain Harvest Fest. I was not impressed by the band at all- BORING! The fans who all knew every word to every song- impressive!